The Conquistadors Did Not Go Far Enough: Human Sacrifices in 2026 — episode transcript
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The Conquistadors Did Not Go Far Enough: Human Sacrifices in 2026 — episode transcript
Simone Collins: Hello, Malcolm. I’m very excited to be speaking with you today. I think maybe kind of I’m more agitated because you know that horrifying episode we did on the Aztecs and their unthinkable violence? Like, all the human sacrifices and the horrible and creative ways that they killed people as offerings to the gods. Yeah. Like, the my my takeaway from that, as I’m sure you recall, was was thank goodness that’s over. But so, Malcolm, it turns out it’s not over because this morning, I learned that human sacrifices to terrible Mexican gods are still happening. The the the practice is alive and well, and I’m super not okay with it.
Malcolm Collins: Wait. Human sacrifices are still happening in Mexico?
Simone Collins: The Mexican god. Yeah. And you know all about it. You just didn’t connect it, and I didn’t connect it either. Now everything is horrible. So let me quote from a CNN wire article presenting one example. Quote, authorities in the northern Mexican state of Sonora have arrested eight people accused of killing two boys and one woman as human sacrifices to Santa Huerte, the saint of death, officials said Friday.
Malcolm Collins: Santa Huerte uses human sacrifices?
Simone Collins: People are making human sacrifices to work. The victims too Cat. At age 10 Why? Were killed, and their blood was offered at an altar to the saint according to Jose Loringa, spokesman of state for state proxy prosecutors. The accused was asking the saint, who was generally portrayed as a skeleton dressed as a in a long robe and carrying a scythe for protection, he said. People aren’t just making offerings to a nightmare fuel Catholic fan fiction idol, for example. Burned heads were found next to a shrine in the Yucatan, and a variety of heads and body parts have been left at or near altars in Mexico over the years. This is not just cartel stuff, but also cartels
Malcolm Collins: I think way the Catholicism spread where they kept trying to incorporate local religions may have had some negative effects.
Simone Collins: I think the thing is is at first, the my whole takeaway with the the oh, thank goodness, you know, the the conquistadors took out the the Aztecs. No. They didn’t. It’s one of those things where, like, you know, it’s like the the the the scary movie at the very end. It’s like, oh, it’s over. They they they killed the the zombie virus. It’s the spread is stopping. You know, they the the the giant shark is dead. and then there’s that, like or is it? It at the very end.
Malcolm Collins: It’s like the eye opens at the very end
Simone Collins: or whatever. It’s that. And that is exactly what this is. Oh, the conquistadors killed the terrifying murdery Aztecs who found terrible ways
Malcolm Collins: to torture people and not to the about it. The cult of Santa Huerta to give people some context on this.
Simone Collins: I I I’m gonna give more background on it, but let me let me give you some more examples.
Malcolm Collins: Okay. Go
Simone Collins: for this this 2019 Mexico City raid on La Union Tepito properties. This is one of the cartels. Found an altar with roughly 20 adult skulls, some with gunshot wounds, other bones, a fetus in a jar, knives, and a Santa Muerte and Jesus Malverde imagery. Officials said neighbors described rituals for luck and bullet immunity. And this made me realize, because I’m sure you have heard this too over time, that all of these very weird, horribly explicit discoveries of bodies that people have found with cartels, I was like, oh, that’s weirdly cruel and unnecessary. Like, why are they doing that? Well, now I’m putting two and two together, and I’m like, hold on. That sounds a lot like the Aztec stuff. Oh, wait. It just is the Aztec stuff. We thought that that Catholicism spread over Mexico like a beautiful field of flowers, and it turns out that, no. You can’t take It
Malcolm Collins: took zombie virus and became the zombie.
Simone Collins: It just yeah. You can’t take the the the the sacrificial insanity out of some people, apparently, and they just found new ways to do it. And and and yes. Okay. So we’ll we’ll talk about Santa Muerte.
Malcolm Collins: She I should note that this practice is condemned officially by the Catholic church. They condemn the Santa Muerte practice, but it is Yeah. No. No. No. Among Catholics within this region. It is. And the people doing these sacrifices would identify themselves as Mexican Catholics.
Simone Collins: Yeah. In the words of the Roman Catholic Diocese of San Angelo, quote, involvement with Santa Huerta is spiritually dangerous and is not Catholic in any way. Should be we agree with
Malcolm Collins: the Vatican on one thing?
Simone Collins: Are we Yeah. We god. Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: Are we actually pro Vatican and less religious extremists now?
Simone Collins: Sweet. Yes. look. We the Catholicism has issues, but it is not Mexican death cult. It’s not it’s not of the Mexican people and their terrifying cosmic horror ways. Okay? Anyway, quote, it should be completely avoided. It is a perversion of devotion to the saints. In 2013, cardinal Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture, denounced the Santa Muerte practice as sinister and infernal. He called it a blasphemy of religion, end quote. Okay. So just to be super clear, Santa
Malcolm Collins: get an inquisition? You know what the Catholic church needs to have an inquisition? For real. Now. Do you know how onboard everyone would be with a Santa Monica?
Simone Collins: Yeah. You know what? Honestly, an inquisition in this day and age would do so well. It would do so well. People would Well, I mean,
Malcolm Collins: obviously, what we really want is a crusade, but we can’t have crusades because, you know, everything’s boring and lame.
Simone Collins: Look. I don’t know. Give it some time. I I honestly could see crusades coming back. But, anyway, so Santa Muerte is not like a saint. I mean, like, you could just she is a Mexican folk saint. She’s a personification of death. She’s usually shown as a female skeleton in a robe holding a scythe and a globe, scales, an owl, some other symbols. She’s not based on some historical woman like other Catholic saints. I mean, we have problems with Catholic saints. I think it’s idolatry. I think it’s it’s not good, but she’s she doesn’t show the patterns of saints. It’s more just like Mexicans were like, I wanna I need a death god. I feel like there’s this death god shaped hole in my heart. You know? And I just but I’m Catholic. So we’re gonna call her saint death god.
Speaker 13: Unit 101, did you know? Did you know one in three aliens have some sort of weapon built in
Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, there’s this is one of those things where we have argued in the past that people coevolve with religious traditions. And you will often really struggle to fully follow a religious tradition that is dramatically differential from your birth tradition. As an example here, as much as and people know that if we’re talking about, like, the nontrue faith, the one I typically give the most slack to is Jainism that I talked about most positively. Okay. But I would never suggest a Caucasian European descent person attempt to convert to Jainism.
Simone Collins: For sure not. Of course.
Malcolm Collins: Because when I have seen that in a and other people I know who have seen it more, they’re like, yeah. Well over half the Europeans I know who converted to Jainism ended up killing themselves.
Simone Collins: It doesn’t work. Yeah. And it’s just clear to me that at least for a nontrivial proportion of the Mexican population, this don’t work. Let me show you guys, though.
Malcolm Collins: Okay. By by the way,
Simone Collins: I also wanna point see this? Yes. Are you okay? Are you showing it on Santa Santa Muerte.
Malcolm Collins: Oh, on Etsy. Oh, statue. Can we oh, get some statues here?
Simone Collins: Okay. Does this look like a a a like a good thing? Does this look like Is this good? Good? Is Is a no. This is this is freaking terrifying. This is not If someone’s if you know someone who’s worshiping this, can you tell them to, like, question their their choices in life? That is this what a good guy worships? Is this what a good guy worships?
Malcolm Collins: I’m gonna be honest. It is pretty baller looking.
Simone Collins: No. I mean, what what is this? This this this tie this white subway tile in the in the in the marble? I this is like a this is like a basic bitch.
Malcolm Collins: Like But hold on. I also wanna point out here that this narrative that the Catholic church did nothing to instigate this is also not true. Oh. So so we’re gonna go into obviously, that’s what they would say, but it didn’t come out of nowhere. Okay? So, specifically, what ended up sort of being the proto version of this was missionaries in New Spain heavily promoted the idea of Bueno Muerte. And this is a a true and actual thing, Sabon. Actually, it’s depicted it it’s so it was such a common belief in the region that it’s depicted in Nacho Libre. It’s or good or holy dying. Dying in the state of grace or confession death. With last rites and proper preparation. They use sermons, confraternities, like the Jesuit congregation de la Bueno Muerte. So this was literally a Jesuit congreg of course, it was a Jesuit congregation.
Simone Collins: You freaking hate Jesuits. No. You hate that one.
Malcolm Collins: Oh, okay. So, anyway, they had paintings. They had processional figures of death to hammer home the Mamertemuero. And, the, historian Elsa Morvidio argued that this imparted the Catholic language of a Santa Muerte or a holy death, which later evolved into the folk saint.
Simone Collins: Sort of. Also, like, I I found a good academic article really analyzing the origins of it. And one of the big things that you missed there is European Christian era images of death, especially as this skeletal grim reaper, which is totally what they’re pulling on as you saw from all those Etsy Right. Right. Right. Right.
Malcolm Collins: But that was a a practice that was practiced not by Protestants. Protestants did not go around
Simone Collins: No. This picture of skeletons.
Speaker 3: So I don’t like to make claims in these without double checking them. for this, it appears that you did see some of this iconography in Protestant countries, but it was at a lower rate than Catholic countries. And this I find very interesting. When it appeared in Protestant countries or in Protestant religious environments, it was produced comically to make fun of the clergy or Catholics. It was a jocular rather than truly religious depiction.
Speaker 4: And as such, it was never something that an individual or colonized group could confuse with something that they were meant to take reverently.
Simone Collins: This this emerged during the plague. And then they combined that with indigenous Mexican and then broader Mesoamerican ideals about death and especially, like, pulling from Aztec gods. And then the point I’m
Malcolm Collins: making here, Simone, because you are trying to say this was not the Catholic culture or church’s fault, the in in which case you need to ask, why don’t we see this in Protestant areas? And the reason is is even in this period
Simone Collins: We don’t do idol worship. And yet, you know, the the the the Catholics permit things like home altars and petitions and candles and rosaries and.
Malcolm Collins: If if I may, if the Orthodox had colonized South America and Central America, you would see the same thing likely.
Simone Collins: That’s true. No. I I totally agree. If if it had been Greek Orthodox or whatever that did it, if it had been, you know, tight lipped Protestant Swiss people, Mexican I don’t I don’t know, though. I don’t know. What the reason why I really wanted to do this episode and talk about this with you is because I’m feeling on a deep level, like, had discounted that point that you made earlier, which is that you you can’t exactly take the deep held, like, inherited genetically entwined religion out of a person. You can’t just convert someone and expect that they’re going to be able to practice a new religion. Like, perhaps, is impossible to remove. So big thesis, for example, of the of the Substack post, going over the book review on the Aztecs and their terrible terrible practices was ideas have consequences. And the whole discussion there was like, oh gosh. There could be a culture and a religion so toxic, this cosmic horror, torture, religion court culture that would cause people to do these incredibly violent, horrible, terrifying things. But then the idea then would be that, okay. Well, then if we change the idea, then everything will be okay. Just switch out the idea. Give people a better idea, and the people will do good things. But here’s the thing, is that they were given a very different idea. Catholicism, you know, on its own, actually doesn’t include that level of savagery. Even with witch hunts, there were trials. There there was due process. No. The Catholics did a
Malcolm Collins: fairly good job. Somebody in one of the things was like, this is about as Buddhist as the inquisitions were Christian. And I was like, the inquisitions were not as bad as you’ve been led to believe.
Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, Protestant witch hunts were way worse than
Malcolm Collins: Catholic hunts. Witch hunts were way worse. It’s, like, not even a comparison.
Simone Collins: Yeah. And so but just giving you know, so I’m what I’m saying is is broadly Catholic ideas were better, and yet switching those out hasn’t taken the horrifically savage, violent, cosmic horror style torture.
Malcolm Collins: I I think you’re right. You you needed two things. Right? Okay. You needed the, so first, and this is the point I kept making, you needed the very loose interpretations around idolatry. Okay? and you needed this combined with a preexisting death cult. And if you have those two things in conjunction with each other, then this can arise. So you do not see this arising in in parts of the what’s an example here?
Simone Collins: See, that’s the thing. I can’t think
Malcolm Collins: of of in Europe. You don’t see this arising in Europe. You don’t see this arising in Orthodox countries, at least not in large amounts. But when you see a Protestant group colonize an area that had a murder cult that was probably as extreme as the Aztecs, you get this stamped out really quickly. A a
Simone Collins: great example. Because I don’t No.
Malcolm Collins: Polynesia. Okay? A large existing indigenous population lives in New Zealand. Okay? Okay. They had a pre genetically written into their DNA murder cult. Okay? Just as much as yes.
Simone Collins: I don’t know what I don’t know these things. I don’t know these things.
Malcolm Collins: And let’s look up the Sorry.
Simone Collins: I I have sort of two tiers of murder cult. So one is just like, okay. These are precivilization humans, which are just violent and mean. Right? So, like, they murder people. It’s bad. Then there’s civilized murder murder cults where they’re like, no. No. No. We’re not just gonna violently murder them. We’re gonna, you know, flay them alive. We’re gonna skin them while they watch. They’re gonna we’re gonna take their beating hearts out of their body. Now that’s the Aztecs. Okay? So what level are we talking with with the Polynesians?
Malcolm Collins: I’ll I’m looking it up. Okay? We’ll look up Mari murder cults. Okay?
Simone Collins: Thank you. Okay. Fantastic. Anyway, so Santa Muerte is obviously the combination of these things. This, like, grim reaper death European imagery thing, the indigenous evil murder cosmic horror Aztec gods, and then just the allowance, basically, of the Catholic church for idolatry and petitions and candles and offerings and and home, like, little altars, which is I just they they always give me the creeps. Even altars like it in in Japan that people would take me to. I love everything in Japan. Home altars give me the creeps no matter where I see them. I hate them. Heebie jeebies. Do not like. Anyway, so people like to worship Santana Muerte because they see her as this nonjudgmental protector who can help in urgent or precarious circumstances. A lot of people say they like her because death is inherently impartial. It doesn’t matter how respected or of ill repute or rich or poor you are, you are going to die. Death will come to you. So, for example, I guess for that reason, which doesn’t make any sense to me, but I guess if you cross your eyes far enough, it’s all gonna somehow come together. a lot of LGBTQ people and, like, sex workers really like La Santa Muerte because Of course they do. They’re like, she accepts everyone because we’re all gonna die, and I just don’t I don’t really get that. But, anyway, part of me is like, oh, well, one thing that makes me laugh here, was one Harvard based account noted that women and poor people and queer people have been central in the movement, but have been often obscured by media and tension due to violence and criminality. Like, they’re saying, oh, well, like, the cartels are getting all the credit for making Santa Muerte famous, But this was really carried by But they carry the death and
Malcolm Collins: the women.
Simone Collins: So, like, yeah. It’s kind of like the gays and the women are responsible for popularizing the scary death god. And then, like, they’re the girlfriends of the cartel leaders who are like, oh, why don’t you sacrifice people to, you know, the the murder goddess? Yeah. I’ve been reading a lot of talk to you. Yeah. And so kind of like, great. So, like, back to women are terrible. Like, they’re fueling this fire. Thanks, girls. Really and gays. Girls and gays. I’m so pleased. Fantastic. Anyway, they they love her for that. They they feel like if you especially if you have no control in life and you just feel like, you know, you’re at the very bottom of the barrel here, she’s your gal.
Malcolm Collins: So so if we’re talking about the Mari here, because you’re asking, did they have a murder cult? Now nowhere first, and I said this very clearly on the episode, nowhere on earth outside of Central And South America had murder cults to that degree. Okay? Right. They were wholly and unique to
Simone Collins: any human in the water, man, or I don’t know. Which we’ll probably do another episode on. Okay.
Malcolm Collins: That said, they did practice ritual killing and cannibalism as a part of their society. Okay? Specifically, the first enemy slain in battle could have his heart cut out and would be offered to their gods, and the priest or high chief would consume the victim’s mana to destroy or take that defeated mana into their sides. Bodies of the enemies were cooked in earth ovens, hangy, and eaten as the ultimate humiliation and as a way to absorb the enemy’s qualities. Slaves on specific occasions were sometimes killed before a campaign to lift tapu or add mana to the chief ceremony for divination or in some accounts when a new or fortified paw was launching at an important canoe. Evidence is so blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 9: Imagine being a imagine being a human sacrifice for a canoe. Yeah. We wanted this canoe to be less wobbly. So, you know, human sacrifice.
Simone Collins: Basically, yes. Now so would you count that as savage or civilized in humanity?
Malcolm Collins: For the people of this region that was as civilized as you’re gonna get.
Simone Collins: Well, yeah. I’m not talking relative giant cities But I’m guessing if you have, like, ceremony around it, and you’re not just like, oh, sympathetic magic. I’m gonna eat it.
Malcolm Collins: But here’s what’s important. There is no while there is a significant surviving, Maori population, okay, they were, colonized by Protestants. Okay? specifically, by the Anglican Church Missionary Society, which arrived in 1814. Okay? And it completely eradicated this practice. This practice does not exist. There is no, Maori murder cults
Simone Collins: Okay.
Malcolm Collins: Anything. in fact, it was it was, wiped out very quickly, in terms of missionary president. It appears within just a couple
Simone Collins: So you can, theoretically, in theory. Like, this is one point in favor of the, no. Actually, you possibly can remove the terrifying violent murder cult out of someone. Yes. Because I was I was kinda worried that, like I don’t know. There’s just something, like, I don’t deep like, deeply ingrained genetic tendencies that might cause people to just want to, like, torture and murder people and offer them as human sacrifices.
Malcolm Collins: I mean, the the the point being is those tendencies might exist.
Simone Collins: Right. But if you have a really strong religion that gives you a good foundation, you’re like, I may feel those feelings, but I will not act on them. Which which goes Not gonna worship the death guy.
Malcolm Collins: Often say about the Bible, which is Oh, yeah.
Simone Collins: I guess yeah. Like, think about all, like, the Appalachian, like, crazy, you know, reputation, but you don’t actually see lots of cases of it. It’s not like in in Appalachia, you see, like, tons of cannibalism and, like, crazy. You know?
Malcolm Collins: You don’t really see any. Yeah. Even though
Simone Collins: there is that tendency, and you can even see it, like, through porn
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Even though they were an incredibly violent people, they never ritually sacrificed anyone. They never tortured people.
Simone Collins: But the interest is alive and well, which I think is the important thing, which which you can see through searches, like online searches. Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: The but, like, the sorry. What she means is if you look up, porn types in The United States, and you’re looking up incredibly violent stuff, you will find the highest rates of it in West Virginia for example.
Simone Collins: Feel it, but they don’t act on it. So in theory, we could have the Mexicans still feel the desire to worship the death cult god and to sacrifice humans to it. But if they had the right religion, they wouldn’t act on it. But it turns out Catholicism is not c utting it, Malcolm.
Malcolm Collins: This is where we get into as as we talk about around, you know, if we see the bible as, like, good rules for how to base society. Like, the 10 commandments are not vague about this. It it is very frequent that you will get some Catholic go on and on about, like, how chaste and good they are because they don’t masturbate, but then they which isn’t even one of the 10 commandments, not even mentioned in the bible other than rules around cleanliness. You can see our our wider episode on this where it’s treated as sort of similar to menstruation. That said, if you’re talking about, like, the second commandment, which is very interesting because it’s put right after the first commandment. I mean, no other no. But what I mean is people will often say, well, what it means is you’re not supposed to worship an icon. You’re not supposed to worship a statue. You’re not supposed to and it’s like, no. That’s not what
Simone Collins: it means. Yeah. Like, let me be super freaking Let me be super clear because if that’s what it
Malcolm Collins: meant, one, it would have been covered by the first quote. And two, it wouldn’t be you don’t make graven images. It would have been you don’t worship graven images. Yeah. But it’s no. You don’t make the graven image in the first place.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, that’s what it is.
Malcolm Collins: Right? You don’t make or you don’t worship?
Simone Collins: hold on. I have them. I I have them up on, like, the top of my notes thing, which got buried because of all my new homeschooling notes. Oh gosh. 10 commandments. Come on.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You shall not make them.
Simone Collins: Oh, see. There you go.
Malcolm Collins: Don’t make them. Don’t Any likeness of anything in the heaven below or the earth beneath. Oh, it’s very clear.
Simone Collins: Yeah. okay. Can I spell this out for you anymore clearly?
Malcolm Collins: Very interesting is it’s not just covering all of the depictions of anything in heaven or angelic or anything like that, but it also says, interesting and a little prophetic, or the earth beneath, e. G, skeletons.
Simone Collins: Yeah. What’s so interesting to me is and I’m not exempt from this because I blaspheme too much. And now that I’ve, like, brushed up on the 10 commandments, I’m like, I gotta I gotta stop. However, man, humans really struggle with the 10 commandments. Like, Jesus has been so clear in his teachings. He’s like, just follow the 10 just follow the 10 commandments.
Malcolm Collins: I’m You literally go off on these giant tangents around, like, being incredibly severely perfect around, like, life beginning at conception, which is not in the bible.
Simone Collins: And it’s like,
Malcolm Collins: dude And then ignore list. Like, commandments one and two.
Simone Collins: One list. One list. It’s a simple list. He made it so simple. I know. I know. I know. And I look. We all let just let’s get back to those basics. Let’s let’s master the list, and then we can get to the other stuff, because the list matters a lot. No. But I think what
Malcolm Collins: I mean and this is really important is people will take the 10 commandments, and they’ll try to extrapolate out of it something around masturbation from the the one that sounds like it’s about you you can pull up the exact wording on it. That seems a lot more about, like, social media and comparing yourself to others. Or they’ll they’ll say, oh, the one about not murdering, which has very specific laws around it in Judaism during this period, is about general killing or off also covers these other things. And it’s like, okay. I totally see how you can get that. The problem is is that the rule around idolatry, There’s no way you can’t get that that applies to, like, all idolatry. Right?
Speaker 11: So I decided to look into the evidence to try to steal man, the other argument, because I just didn’t understand how you couldn’t get this interpretation for the text. And, unfortunately, it just gets stronger the more I read. So, like, when you go to Deuteronomy 16, lest you corruptly and make yourselves a carved image in the form of a figure in the likeness of a male or female, the likeness of an animal that is on the earth, the likeness of a winged bird that flies in the air, or the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, or the likeness of any fish that is beneath the earth. you are specifically not supposed to bow to these things. that is that is what is demanded of you, as well as not to make them, but in addition, to bow to them. And then people will be like because the the strongest counterargument will be like, well, these things there were images of things like lilies and lions drawn at the temple under God’s command. And first, no. They were not drawn under God’s command. it’s it’s very explicit in the text that they weren’t drawn under God’s command. And in the text, they are talked about as, like, artistic motifs. So the lilies are talked about as being, like, the way that, like, a column was topped, or the way that, seams were done in in terms of, like, where the lions are and stuff like that. this is not the same thing as a Catholic shrine that you are bowing to. The closest thing you can get from an actual command and note here, the temple there was stuff in the temple that was not supposed to be in the temple. Right? Like, we know that the snake staff of Moses, something that God actually gave humanity or Moses, was in the temple. And during the Josiah reforms, it was taken out and it was broken because it was idolatrous. Right? Because people had started worshiping it or putting offerings around it or something like this. And so, like, you can’t just feel like, well, it was in the temple. Therefore, god approves it. No. That’s not the way it works. Second and and even with the temple, it’s, again, seem more like motifs. They say, well, what about the cherubs on the ark? And so first of all, God does talk about the cherubs on the ark, but they don’t actually fit any of the prohibitions here. They don’t fit a a human or male, human female or male. They don’t fit any animal on Earth. They don’t fit any fish. so, again, not a contradiction. The Bible is remarkably self consistent.
Speaker 15: And when I talked this through with Simone, she pointed out, and I thought very wisely, that the cherubs are clearly a supporting flourish on a a a separate article of religious significance. Even Protestants aren’t particularly against supporting flourishes, but it is in no way analogous to anything that you see in regards to a Catholic shrine where the icon is at the point or an orthodox shrine.
Speaker 12: What I can say with a lot of confidence is even the loosest, most liberal reading of what’s in the text would not allow you to carve an image of a human being, and they’d leave offerings to it or bow to it.
Malcolm Collins: And it’s like, what’s the positives that you’re getting out of this? A feeling? Like, that’s what I often get, but it it leads to murder cults being possible.
Simone Collins: But, anyway, yeah, you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods. That so And
Malcolm Collins: I wanna be clear here during this period, because we know during this period, there were naked pictures on pottery and stuff like this. Yeah. if something equivalent to modern, like, at least illustrated porn existed, it would have existed in a drawn format. Right? It wouldn’t have been your neighbor’s wives or your neighbor’s slaves. I think it also says that. It it or your neighbor’s oxen.
Speaker 5: yes. I did remember it right. You have Exodus twenty seventeen. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male or female servant or his ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor. And then Deuteronomy five twenty one, you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not desire on your neighbor’s house or land his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything else that belongs to your neighbor. so very clearly, this is way more specific to about things like doomscrolling on Instagram or Facebook, or being jealous of things that other people have. And if you want to extrapolate it to anything else, sure, you you can, but that is not what is in the text or what a plain reading of the text would have you interpret.
Speaker 6: It’s real curious how in pop or Sunday’s dual Christianity, this only gets shortened to you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife and then translated to you shall not covet any other woman, or depiction of women, when that’s not even, at least in Deuteronomy, the first thing listed. It’s you shall not covet your neighbor’s house.
Malcolm Collins: Like, clearly, it could have been written about that, and it
Simone Collins: wasn’t If you’re talking about Leviticus, there’s lot of really specific stuff in there. But we’re talking 10 commandments here. Let’s not get it to Leviticus. To that Leviticus.
Malcolm Collins: It gets
Simone Collins: it’s detailed.
Malcolm Collins: Yep. The point being, it’s like it it could have very easily detailed that, and yet the details that it chose it to go into seem to be a much more, and, again, I’m not saying you should do this stuff. I’m saying, look. You you can have these additional rules, but, like, don’t think you’re an extra good Christian because you’re following all the additional rules that you made up outside of the core rules or extrapolated with some extreme leap from the core rules and then just ignore the core rules. A note here, if you’re gonna be like, well, you know, he said I made you before you were in your mother’s womb. Well, doesn’t that imply predestination? But I I’ve mentioned this in older episodes, but I get very annoyed when people say that because he could have said in, in, in, in, but he doesn’t. He said before, which implies he knew either the future or you have a pre life like Mormons believe, which I don’t think any major Christian denomination believes. Yeah.
Simone Collins: Okay. Let’s get back to Santee Murti.
Malcolm Collins: Santee Murti. But I but I find this interesting because you’re talking about, like, is this based in a group? And you appear to be able to control this instinct, but and and what’s interesting is the Bible appears to be, like, a set of rules for how to control this instinct.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And yet and yet and yet.
Malcolm Collins: And yet.
Simone Collins: Can really struggle with this. It’s super hard. and I’m, again, I’m not above this at all. We’re gonna have to work out how to be be more be better about the 10 commandments. But, anyway, I just wanna make it clear that, like, the the news that
Malcolm Collins: we’re doing mean, the only one that we keep
Simone Collins: the Sabbath. That’s for sure. And, also, I blaspheme. I I I need to stop.
Malcolm Collins: So Yeah. The no. The blaspheming one is the the number one one that we need to do. What about the Sabbath? The Sabbath? We need to go back and look at what that means in context, and I can do that for the next track if you want.
Simone Collins: Oh, I’d be both. Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: Because a lot of groups have had different interpretations around what the Sabbath means.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: And I want to determine exactly what it would mean to keep it in in in that respect.
Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean yeah. Because, I mean, arguably, per our religion, most of what we do every day is religious practice
Speaker 14: A quick review makes it pretty clear from what I can read in the text that you’re not supposed to work on the Sabbath, which is definitely not something that we do. I haven’t taken a day off in probably a decade, so that’s something I should reflect on and incorporate into our daily lives going forward.
Simone Collins: , but whatever. Anyway, Okay. I wanted to make it clear that even though most of the connection I’ve made with all this is, oh, this is all this insanely violent cartel stuff might be insanely violent because of the Santa Muerte worship, which is downstream of the inadequately suppressed Aztec sacrifice ritual compulsion. however, this this is not a dudes in drug cartels thing. This is a very widely popular idol
Malcolm Collins: bullshit. Gay thing? Is it gay? It’s a girly thing.
Simone Collins: You saw you saw the Etsy listings. Is Etsy a boy site? No. Etsy’s a girl site. Did you see those kitchens? Did those look like boy kitchens? No. That was white subway tile on white fake marble. That is a basic bitch girl kitchen, and these are all girl idols. And I’ll give you an example. they’re Valeria Marquez. She was a 23 year old locally popular TikTok livestreamer in Guadalajara. She owned a salon. She would host these TikTok livestreams. She’s a now world famous social media influencer. She had a a shrine to Santa Muerte and was very open about her devotion. It’s like sitting in the corner, very visible in in many of her livestreams. Like, this is just your typical TikTok influencer, plastic surgery, you know, style, makeup, etcetera. Right?
Malcolm Collins: Oh oh, by the way, I will note in defense of Catholics, right Yeah. Especially our last episode on this, the holdout juror in the Lindsey Kantsey case, the the black guy, turns out to be a Catholic as well. So it wasn’t just Lindsey Kantsey. It was also the holdout.
Simone Collins: It wasn’t like, oh, I hate Catholics. Yeah. Because he was like, well, Bill, good. You know, tend to your own flock. Like, go be extra strict on your own people. That’s our whole thing.
Malcolm Collins: He was from Haiti, by the way. He was a a a devout Haitian
Simone Collins: Yeah. That’s awesome. Anyway, Valeria Marquez Marquez was also she was murdered on her livestream in May 2025. Kinda notable. That’s how people came to know about her. That’s how I came to know about her.
Malcolm Collins: Wait. Anyway She was murdered on her livestream, and she was a state of a Muerte idol?
Simone Collins: Yeah. So, apparently, San Diego is not very good at protecting people, by the way. Not not a great track record. Again, I’m like, why would you worship the death god who comes for everyone? Like, death god, don’t kill me. Well, I think You’re
Malcolm Collins: a lot of these people, they don’t really see their lives as having a lot of value?
Simone Collins: Yeah. I guess. Yeah. It’s sad. I mean, she’s 23 years old. Here’s a little aside, though, and this is back to this theme of people just they just can’t help but have the the evil creep back through if their religion is insufficiently strong. And this is this is gonna be you know how you love to hate on the Catholics? Well, I love to hate on the Pentecostals. And you’re you’re about
Malcolm Collins: to see my little do.
Simone Collins: My little shit eating grin in just a second. Okay? Because following Valeria’s murder, people were online convinced that she was the victim of destiny swapping. They think her friend Vivian wanted to steal her life.
Malcolm Collins: Do you
Simone Collins: know about destiny swapping?
Malcolm Collins: no. Tell me about this.
Simone Collins: It’s this whole new it’s it’s not new, I guess. It’s this this sort of occult witchcraft y thing that is a spiritual folk religious idea that one person can steal, exchange, or hijack another person’s intended life plan, like their purpose, their success, their relationships, their glory.
Malcolm Collins: Really like Pentecostals either, by the way. I I know.
Simone Collins: I know. It’s witchcraft. I really I freaking hate it. they’re they’re witches. But do I So they an an example, just just to be thing that’s happening.
Malcolm Collins: Pentecostalism. Charismatic Pentecostalism. They’re witches.
Simone Collins: In the same way that,
Malcolm Collins: like, with Catholicism, I love SPSX. I don’t like Vaticanist Jesuit Catholicism.
Simone Collins: Yeah. There you go. But, anyway, just saying Protestants are not spotless. Okay? Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Just just trying to keep it balanced over here. But, anyway, this this idea of destiny swapping, this this folk religion, it’s popular enough to have a WikiHow article. It’s like literally a WikiHow article about destiny swapping. There are loads of online posts where people wonder if some jealous friend or colleague has life swapped with them, or they want advice on how to Wait. What? Like destiny life swap. Yeah. Here. Let me click on one. I I linked to a a couple in the in the show notes. Hello. I’m looking for practical advice, not debate. For years now, I’ve been dealing with what I can only describe as a persistent destiny swap or identity mirroring dynamic tied to a specific person I’ve tried to completely cut off. No contact, blocked everywhere, etcetera. But the sense of interference, it hasn’t stopped. It feels like they’re attempting to align with or overlap my path, copy aspects of my identity, or tap into my life in a way that goes beyond coincidence. At this point, it’s noticeable enough that other people have commented on it, which is part of why I’m taking it seriously. It’s also affecting my behavior. I find myself holding back, staying quiet, or dimming my presence just to avoid feeding whatever it is. I’m looking for methods to sever this, Banishing, uncrossing, cord cutting, if relevant. In this context, I’ve already tried it. protection or shielding that actually holds. If anyone has dealt with a similar situation, especially something targeted or persistent, I really appreciate hearing what has worked in practice. Anyway, there are tons of these. Reddit threads. This one’s on forum.becomingalivinggod.com. Great. This is what people should be spending their times doing. Anyway, though, there’s a lot of witches out there, right, and and, like, women into the occult. One example that was cited in a video about the killing of this social media influencer, which is which discusses the destiny swapping theories, cited one Reddit post where a woman apparently went to a fortune teller and was like, well, with your boyfriend, you know, you’re gonna do these great things and have a son with him. But then her the boyfriend’s ex then cheats with him, has a son, and then they live this life together. And then the person who you know, the the jolted woman assumes that this person destiny swapped with her and stole her destiny. And, oh my god.
Malcolm Collins: Stole stole her wait. Her husband or the guy who she liked or something?
Simone Collins: Yeah. Because yeah. Because the her her boyfriend went back to his ex, like or they cheated. She got pregnant, had a son, and this is after a fortune teller had told the original girlfriend, the now jilted girlfriend, that she was going to have a son with this man. And so she’s like, I’ve had destiny swapping. Like,
Malcolm Collins: how horrible.
Simone Collins: Destiny swapped me. Yeah. If these women found your lore with your brother, they’d be like, I don’t know. Somehow their destiny, like, entwined. There’s some versions of destiny swapping that assume that, like, relational closeness or energy can tie people’s destinies together, and then people could argue that, like, you and your brother have, like, inter twined destinies because you, you know, both went to the same schools and all these crazy things. But, anyway, it’s it is definitely this there’s the witchcraft angle of it involving a cult and rituals, then there’s the biblical angle with Jacob and like, being the most cited example. I I just relistened to this story in the Old Testament, and it’s so stupid. Like, it it’s just a bizarre story because Esau’s birthright, he he sells it to Jacob for stew because he was really hungry. So Jacob got his birthright, and that’s apparently how many Pentecostals got into it because they’re like, don’t you see? Like, you can steal someone’s birthright because Jacob Because Jacob did it. Yeah. Jacob gave stew to
Malcolm Collins: This is what we talk about. We’d say Pentecostalism. Specifically, charismatic Pentecostalism is just witchcraft disguised as Christianity. Like, they’re like, well, you know, it happened in this story. So let’s Yeah.
Simone Collins: So, like, I’m gonna take it and run with it. Not related to the 10 commandments at all, but whatever. But, yeah, this it’s it’s most popular in African, Pentecostal, charismatic, and deliverance ministry circles. And when I tried to look on YouTube for more information, it was all, like, either black Pentecostal YouTube influencers or black Pentecostal or, charismatic ministry preachers talking about it and being like, this is bad. We must stop it. Not in terms of, like, this is not true, but, like, you have to stop the people doing this. It’s all like, how do I stop the person who destiny swapped with me? Like, completely giving fuel to the fact that it’s real, which
Malcolm Collins: is How do I destiny swap with somebody else? I wonder.
Simone Collins: It’s it’s it’s free. Yeah. It’s it’s very I
Malcolm Collins: am so glad not many of our fans like this stuff because who knows if they’d be casting this to try to be married to you? Any any man would want that.
Simone Collins: I don’t think so. You know that no one would want my the things you put up with every day. My god, Malcolm. But, yeah, like, there’s just all these, like, dijerially other
Malcolm Collins: aspects to that
Simone Collins: talk about how difficult I am.
Malcolm Collins: No. To focus on in charismatic pentecostalism, you do see a number of really bad traditions come through. For example, folk beliefs like this as well as over far beliefs about, possession and witches that end up to, you know, people killing their kids or whatever.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: obviously, way lower rates than we’re talking about in these other countries or, like, in Mexico, but it it still happens. Right?
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just it’s just it’s it’s crazy. It’s really notable, though, because, again, like No.
Malcolm Collins: But what’s noticeable about it Yeah. Is that it completely cuts out any idolatry. Like, the the
Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. The idolatry is gone. It’s just the witchcraft is there.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Like, you can try to put as many rules on things. And then depending on how you define witchcraft, you end up still because the witchcraft stuff is not in the 10 commandments. Right? Like, that’s none of the stuff that they were doing there.
Simone Collins: Something like you won’t suffer a witch No.
Malcolm Collins: Suffer a witch somewhere. Live, but that’s not in the 10 commandments. Yeah. That’s definitely not. That’s like a ancillary.
Simone Collins: Well, except it it it is inherent in many elements of witchcraft to worship idols. Most Right.
Malcolm Collins: But it’s not inherent in the forms of witchcraft that seep into Pentecostalism. Absolutely. So they’re like The point I’m making is that even where you get these really negative behavioral patterns in Pentecostalism, the idolatry rules still are mean, I feel like given the horribleness of the stuff that breaks through, there is a king lot held behind the doors of the idolatry dance.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, destiny swapping does break the 10 commandments to be clear. Thou shall not steal. So No. And also coveting coveting your your Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: Exactly. That fall really good on the coveting one. Okay. Yeah. Right.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, destiny swapping is definitely a no go if we’re if we’re stick sticking in the 10 commandments. Again, I’m like, let’s just again, Jesus was so clear. Like
Malcolm Collins: 10 commandments are, like, really good. Yeah. Like, they they work for most things. Yeah. But the the but they don’t pass the idolatry one, and I find that very interesting. That that that Yeah. Door does appear
Simone Collins: Yeah. Depending on how you practice it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, let’s let’s just I I wanted to like, that that that, like, worlds collide element of of all this was, like, crazy to me. You know? Like, the destiny swapping meets Santamoritaine worshipper who gets killed during a livestream. It was insane. She was, like, on this all night livestream. And what made people really suspicious was her friend Vivian who apparently, like, everyone thought was really jealous of her, and things showed up on livestreams all the time where she was stealing her underwear and stuff like that and saying Wait.
Malcolm Collins: Her her female friend was stealing her underwear?
Simone Collins: Yes. Like, they’re yeah. On on her livestream at one point, she’s like, stop stealing my underwear. And her friend was Vivian was like, oh, well, I’ll just buy you more. And she’s like, no. I don’t have any underwear left. Like, this is really not cool. And so who knows if she was, like, sleeping with her boyfriend wearing her underwear, like, some creepy ass who knows what’s going on there. Right? And then during this livestream on the night she was killed, Vivian used DoorDash or Uber Eats or something to send her a Starbucks order and a pig plushie. And then people later were like and the way it was done is, hey, Toastie. What’s up? Okay. Toastie wants to say hi, and then Toastie’s gonna go back down and do his lessons. He started homeschooling today. The house is good here back. But the but the house is gonna appear back on the computer. Every time when they go to the new license and do the passcode.
Malcolm Collins: But great. A note here. I make it as a side note. But I do want to clarify this when we talk about the idolatry stuff. Are not because Celestium, we talked with her. We lost the recording, so I have to redo it. But she you know, when she’s often dealing with Protestant groups, and they’ll say, oh, because she’s an orthodox, she practice these pagan rituals in the way that idolatry seeps into the orthodox tradition. And I wanna point out here that that is not at all what we’re saying. I do not think that when an Orthodox person worships an icon or has an icon in their in an area where they’re worshiping or uses an icon to facilitate their worship, they are practicing in anything that I would call pagan. I I’m only highlighting these sorts of things because I’m like, these rules are there for a reason and have downstream civilization level effects when not followed really strictly. I’m I’m not saying that x group is pagan or y group is pagan.
Simone Collins: I agree. right. So what happened after her friend Vivian, by the way, just
Malcolm Collins: to finish that whole thing. Her a pig. What happened?
Simone Collins: Send her a pig. Some guy came to deliver something that he said was expensive, came in, and then when she confirmed who she was, he shot her point blank in the chest and in the head. Execution style. And she died on livestream, which is terrifying. Anyway, so, like, don’t Wow.
Malcolm Collins: It was a hit?
Simone Collins: It was a hit. Yeah. People assume she was dating a cartel leader or something and that he was a vindictive act. Makes sense.
Malcolm Collins: You’re a a well known Mexican streamer?
Simone Collins: Yeah. But, you know, it it yeah. Anyway, this is this is a violent world, and I don’t see being involved with any of this idol worship as helping. So this makes
Malcolm Collins: me much much stricter on Hispanic immigration into The United States, specifically Mexican immigration, or the integration of Mexico as as anything other than a vassal state.
Simone Collins: I don’t I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m just saying I’m I’m very, very concerned about anyone who’s interested in this. Because, again again, if you are worshiping that scary death deity, it’s like one of the, like, are we the baddies moment. Like, am I worshiping an altar with a skeleton on it and offering it things.
Malcolm Collins: Maybe The problem is, Simone, is you say this, but there are Orthodox and Catholic churches that are made out of bone. Simone, the point I’m making here is if you like Oh, if you’re worshiping the the skeleton, if you’re worshiping at the Skeleton Shrine, yet there are you you have orthodox and catholic like, you’re you’re the one who’s more sympathetic to them than I am, and they have, like, literal temples made out of human bones that are ordained by their central organization.
Simone Collins: Yeah. And I think the people worshiping at that stuff have some serious problems. I I think they’re
Malcolm Collins: It’s officiated all the way to the top. Like, it’s not like the Catholic church. It’s like, oh, we have some problems with the bone temples, or or the the patriarchs condemn the bone temples. Like, we probably shouldn’t have the bone temples Fair. Have entire orders dedicated to the bone temples, yet they have the bone temple.
Simone Collins: Well and that’s a problem. That’s a problem. I’m coming out. It’s official. I have a big problem with that. That is not a good sign. Okay. Let’s talk about the offerings that are made to Santa Muerte. Just to yeah. Anyway, if you’re a normal person, alright, you’ve got your you’ve got your altar. You can you can get your little statue on Amazon. There’s lots on Amazon. You can get them on Etsy. You can get them locally, whatever. You might put a a glass of fresh water there, some candles, fresh flowers, maybe some apples, candy, alcohol in small glasses. Here’s some other offerings that people are you know, if you wanna go above and beyond, I’m just gonna I’m gonna give some of the more violent examples, and then give them over a long time frame so you can see just how long standing this is. Okay? I’ll start with more recent. Go later. In 2024, the FBI described Michelle Angelica Pinera. This is a lady. She went by La Cielly tied to a Juarez crew as removing hearts from dismembered victims and placing them in front of the Santa Muerte statues and altars. That sounds awful familiar, doesn’t it, Malcolm? That sounds a lot like Aztec worship. Chihuahua authorities linked the crew to more than 20 dismemberment killings. And as I was reading this, I was like, okay. All these times when in the news, I’ve read, like, oh, like, cartel killings found, like, dismembered and lined up in the road in a certain way. Like, oh, that wasn’t just them, like, trying to remove identifying features. This is different. 20 In 15 Well,
Malcolm Collins: we I I really need to put some hate monger in here of, like, could they be different at a genetic level?
Simone Collins: Oh my god. But I don’t I don’t know. I’m I’m very confused, but I think I think your whole thing of, no, it just has to be a more airtight religion is a very good answer.
Malcolm Collins: No. I think
Simone Collins: it’s a they I
Malcolm Collins: think it’s both because you don’t get this to the same extent in France or Spain or Italy. You need both. You need
Simone Collins: I know. I know. But the the Appalachia plus or Appalachia plus Maori example that you presented gives me, like, okay. You’re two examples
Malcolm Collins: of saying here. That’s why I’m saying you need both. If you just have the nonrestrictions on idolatry You don’t necessarily get this. If you just have the very aggressive, murderous people, you don’t get this. You need both.
Simone Collins: You need the aggression and the lack of idolatry and witchcraft. Restrictions.
Malcolm Collins: Yes.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. So in in 01/2016 prison interview, a man named Edgar who served with a Juarez cartel said, I officially or I actually sacrificed people for my Santa Muerte. I kill for ordering, but I talk to her and say, hey. I go to a job. Just make me hit. I’m gonna give you that life. It is for you. And this is a guy who claimed to have murdered roughly 60 people. And he just saw everyone as as a sacrifice for Santa Muerte. I remember reading somewhere just how cheap hits were in Mexico, like, $200, like, sometimes even less. And I’m like, maybe, know, it’s like
Malcolm Collins: a bonus. If you’re also going to Santa Muerte, then
Simone Collins: I know. Like, I will pay you. It’s it’s crazy. One one Catholic priest called father Ernesto Caro, he’s he’s a prominent Catholic priest in Mexico, an exorcist. He’s based in Monterrey. He told the BBC about one cartel disposal man who sought exorcisms from him because a lot of these people then eventually kind of feel guilty about what they’re doing. Who knows why? This man described cutting up bodies and burning people alive while devoted to Santa Muerte. Again, sounds super familiar. Cutting up bodies while they’re still alive. Just like we read in about in that in the
Malcolm Collins: Just like the if you haven’t seen the Aztec episode, you absolutely should. It’s shocking.
Simone Collins: Terrifying. So It
Malcolm Collins: completely changed my perspective on, like, the truly evil civilization.
Simone Collins: How how evil humans can can be, the the depravity of which we’re capable. In 2010, a decapitated head was left by the tomb of Arturo Beltran Levia whose apartment contains Santa Muerte items. In Culiacan, investigators treated that as a possible offering. Various Ciudad Juarez cases in 2009 and 2010 included altered remnants both to Santa Muerte or sorry. Spray paint around this area said Santa Muerte and Cuidadnos Flakita of, like, take care of us skinny lady, skinny one. You know, like, Ita is, like, cute. So, like, I don’t know. Cute. You know? Skeleton lady. Spray My wife speaks
Malcolm Collins: fluent Spanish, by the way. That’s why she’s Not.
Simone Collins: I wouldn’t say fluent.
Malcolm Collins: Let’s say Everybody every Spanish person you talk to says fluent.
Simone Collins: So I don’t know. When I speak in Spanish, it’s really bad, but I just speak like I speak now. And so they’re like, well, at least you sound like you instead of Instead, I’m just like Anyway, neighbors said the Hillsdale thirteen group wanted something big as they were, like, making these these offerings and spray painting this stuff. And they they they they burned a victim behind a house around where they spray painted these things. Also, stacked headless bodies have been inferred, but not always proven as a ritual staging. In 2008, in Nuevo La Laredo, a Gulf Cartel members captured CNLOR cartel members, took them to public Santa Muerte shrines, and then shot them.
Malcolm Collins: Well
Simone Collins: I didn’t know that they were public Santa Muerte shrines until researching this episode either. One thing that really creeped me out when I when we were in Peru was all the saint shrines and the extent to
Malcolm Collins: which Why don’t they get rid of the shrines if human sacrifices are happening at the shrine? I mean Like, this is a Catholic country. Right? Like, can’t they just stop
Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s not it’s not a condoned like, Catholic condoned saint. So, yeah, why are there public shrines to Santa Muerte? That’s weird.
Speaker 7: So I decided to look these up, and there are a number of public Santa Muerte shrines in Mexico. So I wasn’t able to pin down the exact one. What is interesting about the two I found here is that in one, two images of Jesus are looking up to the Santa Muerte. And then in the second, there is an image of Jesus directly next to the Santa Marte depicted as an equal. What is fascinating about this is I think a lot of people want to be like, well, this is pagan. This isn’t Catholic. This has nothing to do with Catholicism. And it’s like, clearly, people who believe this wouldn’t consider it that way. Clearly, they would consider themselves a type of Catholic. And so it’s important that we don’t say, well, you you could say, I don’t consider it this, or the Vatican doesn’t consider it this. But part of the problem is as soon as you say the Vatican doesn’t consider it this, then the then you can say, well, anybody who doesn’t agree with all of Vatican two isn’t Catholic. Right? so I think it’s better to just be like, well, there’s different categories of Catholic, and this is one category.
Speaker 8: Oh, and in addition, there have been efforts by the government to tear them down, and, swathes of them have been torn down at specific times to much protest, but they still exist in large numbers.
Simone Collins: Although, why are those hysterically hideous statues in in Palo Alto as well? I mean, who put them there? It’s it’s it’s demonic. Those are disgusting.
Malcolm Collins: Did you see the new horrible black lady statue in the center of Trifalgus?
Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. That no. It’s supposed to be, like, feminism embodied. That’s it’s terrifying. So ugly. Yeah. Her face
Malcolm Collins: looks real sick. Trying to make our cities ugly. Absolutely a thing.
Simone Collins: Well, you know what? Honestly, after all of the news coverage about women lately, I’m like, yep. That’s it. Good job. They they nailed it. That’s feminism embodied now. That’s us. Okay. Great. Anyway, some of this has leaked into Mexican communities in, in in South Texas. So in the mid two thousands, Inter Seda’s communications described slashing teenagers and then collecting the blood in a cup and then toasting to Santa Muerte. And this reminded me of all of the the rituals that you had to practice as an Aztec citizen or priest that involved hurting yourself. You know, like, the one where they would cut through their tongues and then shove a rope with knots on it through your tongue, like, a 100 times, however many times. Right?
Malcolm Collins: It does sound like that.
Simone Collins: It sounds like that. other intercepted Zetta chatter, it referenced blood toast to Santissima Huerta, like, the ultimate sage. great. We we love her that much. And and then this goes back even more. Like, in 1989 Matamoros Narcos Santicos Ranch. Narcos Santicos, that’s like, narco saints, drug saints Okay. Belonging to a guy named Aldofo Constanzo involved ritual killings, including Mark Kilroy with a cauldron containing a boiled brain and other remains. Sante Muerte was among the idols worshiped along with Paulo Mayombe, but that’s a a different thing. He’s like a Cuban religious Central African thing.
Malcolm Collins: Glad we’re not living in Texas anymore. Look. We need to push build a wall. I don’t I don’t know. Consolidate consolidate power and push out. Right?
Simone Collins: Like No. I just we need religious reform. I I want everyone to be okay. I don’t care where they are. I I want we Cath Catholics either need to really curtail idol worship or GTFO. I’m just I’ve got very serious problems with it because this I really thought at the end of our Aztec episode that we were okay. I swear to you, it was it was the end of the scary movie of, like, we made it. You know?
Malcolm Collins: We can they killed them all.
Simone Collins: They gone. Was so traumatized. You know, like, we’re covered with blood and mud and our, you know, our hair is, like, half singed off, but, like, we’re gonna survive. And then, yeah, then the the the demon eye opens and, you know, dumb. And then, like, you know, jump scare movies over roll credits. That that was And now this is this is, you know, part two. Aztec empire redux today, everyday life, now, has been all around us. Didn’t realize, didn’t draw the connection.
Malcolm Collins: It ends it ends with the, with the taking native wives. Then you’re like, wait. No. No. What are you doing?
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s just it’s just bad. It’s just bad. And, yeah, I mean, keep in mind, like yeah. I was just picturing, like, the Conquistador has, you know, beautiful baby with, you know, Aztec woman, you know, baby being cradled, baby opens eye, eye demon eye. Like, because the the thing is back to that that first sacrifice I was telling you about that was a a noncartel family, I think one of the the youngest people involved in one of those arrests, the one where, you know, two ten year old boys were killed and one woman Sacrificed, was 15 years old. This is a kid.
Malcolm Collins: This is
Simone Collins: a kid doing this, and there’s just something deeply wrong. And at end of my show notes and what I kind of wanted to, like, post you, which I think you’ve already answered, was can this be fixed? Like, is it I thought, well, you know, it’s just just basically evidence that domineering cultures fail. They get, like, come in and actually save people. Like, can people not be saved? But I think, no. What you’re really saying and what you I think you’ve, to me, plausibly proven and hopefully in in the comments
Malcolm Collins: I didn’t know about the colonization thing. That was a guess for me. I was like, okay. Where did a murder cult exist and you had a Protestant colonization effort? Okay. When it’s not just there. Also, a lot of the tribes in the North were, like, way more brutal than you would imagine. You’re gonna wanna take off your headphones for this, Simone? Okay. Okay. Like, you know the nice and sweet Iroquois who everybody oh, Iroquois confederation. Oh, so one of the things the Iroquois would do is they would, when they would take female slaves, they would make them watch as they cook their children alive and ate them, babies specifically, as a form of, like, psychological torture. So, like, that’s not something we’ve ever done. Our side is up. Anyway, you can
Simone Collins: Thank you.
Malcolm Collins: Okay. But the point being is, like, those tendencies existed maybe not to the same extent as the we we haven’t had major problems
Simone Collins: with that. But, again, like, in the m m I w g two s episode, we talked about the fact that there still are disproportionate rates of violence in in other atrocities in In native communities. Yeah. So, like, there there are, I guess, in the absence of strong culture, still issues in populations that historically had issues with violence and, for lack of a better word, savagery. And that’s important to note. But, yeah, the solution is is strong culture, no idolatry, no witchcraft. Follow the 10 commandments. Yeah?
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That that that works. But I think in in order.
Simone Collins: In order. Yeah. Well, no. I mean, 10 command just put two words. 10 commandments. That’s it. Because the the no idolatry is in there.
Malcolm Collins: It’s all it’s all in there. But It’s all in the point being is that a lot of people go really hard on some obscure extrapolation from something. Right? Like, as I talked about, like, the the no masturbation thing or, like, I don’t drink alcohol, which is, like, as I pointed out, like, Christianity has multiple alcohol related miracles. Right? Like, that’s clearly not one of the intentions. And they’ll go really strict on this stuff and then just completely ignore, like, the central stuff.
Simone Collins: Right? It’s not it’s just a version of procrastination. It’s it’s like with our kids.
Malcolm Collins: Not version of procrastination. It’s performative purity, which was one of the things that Jesus spoke against at the sermon on the mount. Yeah. And that’s why
Simone Collins: we should In fact, I was just arguing. There’s someone who keeps emailing us about a certain thing, and I was trying to argue to him that, like, Jesus was super okay, for example, with with women of ill repute and tax collectors because those people rejected the corrupt priests of the time who, to Jesus’ point and to your point, engaged in in that performative corrupt form of religion.
Malcolm Collins: The the fact that Jesus was accepting of them, right, and wanted them to come over to his side does not mean he condoned their practices.
Simone Collins: Yeah. but what they they were they, I mean, they were repentant, obviously, but they were he was more interested in them than someone who is literally in the priest class because they were more willing to go back to the basics of, okay, 10 commandments. Gotcha. I think I can do that Yeah. Which is actually really, really hard. And, again, I admit that, but that means that we have to be extra disciplined.
Malcolm Collins: Okay. Love you, Simone. Good episode. Good topic. I had no idea this was happening. I’m gonna be
Simone Collins: Well, no. But you you knew about La Santa Muerte, and you also knew about this the all the Mexican cartels and how insanely violent they are because that’s regularly a news coverage, like some new insane formation of decapitated and dismembered bodies. I just hadn’t put two and two together of, oh, this sounds a little Aztec, and why are they all worshiping a death cult? I also hadn’t actually read the news coverage that showed that many of them and their girlfriends, alleged and otherwise, were, like, super into Santamuerte. So now I’m like, okay.
Malcolm Collins: And that it’s like a gay LGBT thing too. It’s like it’s like the the cartels and, like, gay bars and, like, witchy females. Right? Like, it’s like all of the bad guys in one place. and and note here, I think all gay people but I think that there’s a certain culture that exists within gay culture that definitely is destructive to people who come in contact with it psychologically. Well, yeah.
Simone Collins: I mean, just like you you don’t you’re not anti porn, but you you would probably say that someone who, like, builds their lifestyle around porn
Malcolm Collins: Is doing really bad things.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Probably not weighing their their You
Malcolm Collins: know, like like okay. This is this is a great one, the gay stuff. Right?
Simone Collins: Like The gay stuff.
Malcolm Collins: The gay stuff, the gay there are prohibitions against same sex relationship in the bible, but they are not in the 10 commandments. And you will see people who will build their entire lives around attacking gay people and act like it’s the most important thing that you do ever, ever, ever, and don’t follow the 10 commandments.
Simone Collins: Yeah.
Malcolm Collins: And this is something I see regularly. And it’s like, that, I think, is an incredibly ugly way to live because you’re you’re only using religion or truth where you can use it to make yourself seem better than other people Or instead of using it as a set of tools for restraining yourself.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Agreed. So this stuff’s crazy. Have a good day, Simone. The ask techs aren’t gone.
Malcolm Collins: They will be. People think, uh-oh. Oh, this segment purge and stuff. Pretty interesting. Pretty interesting. They they seem a little, like, very nice for now. But the, you know, baked into some of this.
Simone Collins: The whole point of prenatalism is that you don’t have to work too hard to win. That the point you’ve always made, and this is this holds strong, is that in the past, you used to have to, like, kill people and wage war to just take over. And now you just have to, like, have enough kids and raise them well and set them up With technology. With AI. Look. Birth rates in Mexico are worse than birth rates in The United States. Alright?
Malcolm Collins: Right. But but with genetic modification and stuff like that. Because if some other group is practicing continued genetic modification, continued evolution, continued technological advancement, and you are not, you lose no matter how many kids you have.
Simone Collins: Yeah. And we should delve into the the recent research that found that things like myelination and a variety of other mammalian and vertebrate genetic differences are downstream of retroviral shifts.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. In in infections. Yeah.
Simone Collins: They’re they’re not Maybe it’s not so much about using CRISPR. Maybe it’s more about engineering viruses.
Malcolm Collins: The point being is, like, people who are like, well, the human human don’t have DNA from other animals in them. It’s like, yes. Yes. You do. Yeah. You do. Are you talking about? Yeah. anyway Yeah.
Simone Collins: You wouldn’t be so smart, apparently, if it weren’t for a virus because
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. This is Timothy or whatever, the guy who we mentioned in the angels episode, where he’s like, oh, the the bible’s obviously against it. Like, no. It’s not. Why are you going so hard on this when the bible doesn’t mention it once?
Simone Collins: Yeah. Back to that theme.
Malcolm Collins: Tech And it will lead to your people being defeated, eradicated, or moved into a realm of irrelevance by people who do continue to technologically develop. Anyway, love you.
Simone Collins: Bye.
Malcolm Collins: Toasty did. And I explained that we may have to kill all the chickens, because if they develop a pattern of eating the eggs, then they’ll teach it to any new chicks. So the only way to have chickens again is to start fresh. And Octavian and Torsten were extremely distressed by that. Octavian was like, yeah. I’m cutish. And I was like, yeah. I’m cutish. And Torsten was like, even my birthday chicks? And I was like, even your birthday chicks. So, hopefully, they don’t pick that up.
Simone Collins: Yeah. The most important thing is this was a dropped egg. It’s it’s actually not that big of a deal. It’s if they’ve learned that they pack the eggs, that they get a treat, that’s the problem, which is why we put fake eggs in their nests. So that if they pack at them and nothing good happens, then they don’t start eating their eggs. It’s not that big of a deal if they eat a broken egg because it kind of looks fundamentally different. And I don’t know. We we’ve not had problems with that in the past, but I appreciate your freaking them out about it because I just don’t like having to clean up the mess, and I just don’t like when they break food that could be eaten. but, yeah, now Octavian’s gonna be extra devastated because laid her first egg today, and it’s really cute. It’s a little little blue egg. Super tiny.
Malcolm Collins: Excited about that. His his favorite chicken. I do not know why he he bonded with one chicken over all other chickens.
Simone Collins: Well, because he really likes orange chickens. And that one day, there was only one orange baby chick, if you’ll recall. The rest were that other funny breed that has yeah. That’s what we mean.
Malcolm Collins: Cutish is a different breed than all other chickens?
Simone Collins: Yeah. You know that one adolescent chicken we have that’s a deep burnt orange color? That’s a blue it’s a blue egg layer, and it’s different from the helmet head chickens.
Malcolm Collins: Oh, so we got the helmet heads and then just Cutiesh.
Simone Collins: Yeah. The Cutiesh.
Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Who’s the leader chick.
Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. They all follow they all follow her around. She’s a born a born leader just like Octavian. She’s great.
Malcolm Collins: Oh my god. So anything new today?
Simone Collins: No. Just quite distracted with the kids homeschooling. But Tursten’s after actually doing a pretty good job. He’s well ahead of Octavian in lessons so far today, strong lead. Even though as he moves about the house to do his lessons in different locations, he always has to move his retinue with him. He gets up to the desk next to my office this morning, and he’s like, oh, I forgot my rock. And I’m like, Toasty, you don’t need the rock. And he’s like, no. Like, runs downstairs and then comes back up all very you know, here’s my rock. And it’s like, it’s not an interesting rock. It’s a piece of broken pavement. But sometimes I feel like I learn a lot from the kids, you know, in terms of how, like, it it’s the end of the world if something doesn’t quite go their way. And then I see myself, and I’m like, you know what? This is just me. This is how I react to absolutely everything too. Yeah. When you get a call, when your
Malcolm Collins: schedule changes, and you’re like
Simone Collins: And I’m like then I’m I am I am Octavian on the floor having his little his little fit. And it helps me put my own stupid behavior in perspective, and I appreciate having that reflected extremely explicitly to me. Thanks, world, life, circumstances.
Malcolm Collins: Sure. And in terms of advertising the website, we have two big new features. One that I
Simone Collins: Can you show this on YouTube? I don’t know if you can show this on YouTube.
Malcolm Collins: Oh, I’m not gonna show the well, one makes comics, but it can also make not safe for work comics, which we’re going to put on not safe for work websites. And it’s it’s still improving. This one’s still improving a lot.
Simone Collins: It’s really interesting. I feel times. Learn a lot from AI to see where the shortcomings on this are because the the comic frames themselves look really good. And then you read the speech bubbles, which Malcolm cleverly has added later, like, after. And it’s Was doing a bad job
Malcolm Collins: with the speech bubbles, and I think I finally pinned down what was causing that, and I think that’s fixed. So we’ll see
Simone Collins: if language food menu in rural China level. You know? Like, heavily beaten dancing chicken, depressed dog. Like, that’s, like, the dishes. It it’s it’s very strange. So what’s your solution? Is your solution just to, like, first write the full storyboard and script and then have the the frames made and then have that exact script to put in the frames so that there’s not, like because I think the issue was that AI was reading the pictures and then making very stupid speech bubbles based on that instead of going off, like, a master script storyboard and just putting the exact verbatim script into the speech bubbles. Is that what you were doing as your fix?
Malcolm Collins: No. It was losing it it’s it’s it’s confusing. The way it made a mistake was nuanced. The other feature that I created I’m really excited to share with people is you put in a MAWA or comic of your choice, and it will read it for you. And it will assign, like, female voices to female characters, male voices to the male characters, and create a video of the the, like, the scene that it’s focused on with it reading that scene. In in addition to all of that, it’s going to be just like because a bunch of channels have started doing this as, a income stream or something, and I watch them regularly. It’s the thing I watch most now, actually.
Simone Collins: I can vouch I can vouch for that.
Malcolm Collins: Which is because I I really love my villainous Moas. Okay? I love my villainous Moas, and this Her
Simone Collins: heart pounded as she looked into his face.
Malcolm Collins: But now I can take those from any language, have them stream in English with different character voices, and it doesn’t cost much money. Like, the anime dubber cost a lot of money. This, can run for very, very
Simone Collins: Would this could this also just work on general comics like that adorable BDSM one?
Malcolm Collins: Yeah.
Simone Collins: I guess there’s not a is there a Webtoons version of that? What about, love advice from, what,
Malcolm Collins: Duo You could do that if you want. Yeah. You could do it on any of them. Oh. And I will maybe try to use this to advertise the site a bit. We’ll see. I mean, it’s more of an issue with copyright, so I’ll try to say the stuff that’s available for free.
Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. Recommendation for love advice from the duke of hell, though. It’s the sweetest.
Malcolm Collins: Yes. You you quite like that one, and we’ll see if we can then shunt up people who like it into, like, paid versions as well as the site. So very cool and a new thing that you can do with our fab. And ours is way better than the ones that you just see online because it actually reads the text of the text instead of telling you about what the text says, which actually makes it very hard to follow what’s going on. You
Simone Collins: know, as a power user, you know best.
Malcolm Collins: Alright. So get me started on this, Simone.
Simone Collins: Okay. Here we go. Pulling up my notes.